This is a follow up on our episode 1: Social Media for the Construction Industry.
This is was a great round table discussion I had with Neil Brown and Brian Reuhl from the Construction Marketing Association, Duane Craig from the Construction Informer blog, and Mark Johnson FAIA, an architech, writer, educator, speaker, and social media extraordinaire.
This was a fun discussion and I hope you will enjoy it as much as I did.
Take a listen by clicking the orange “play” button above.
- Construction Marketing Association
- Construction Informer by Duane Craig
- Mark Johnson FAIA on LinkedIn
- Mark Johnson FAIA on Twitter
- Slideshares presentations by Mark Johnson
- Google Doc on Twitter chats
Listen to the entire episode by clicking the orange “play” button above. Or you can check out the entire text transcription of the discussion by clicking here: [spoiler]Cesar: OK. Hello, everybody. This is Cesar Abeid from the Construction Industry Podcast and this is episode 10 of the show. I’m recording this one from Brazil and I apologize in advance for the call quality here. It’s not the best and you might hear a hiccup here and there on my voice especially. I have on the line with today a wonderful group of individuals here that are heavily involved with social media and blogging for the construction industry and I will introduce them to you in a second and you can check the show notes later on for contacts for all these guys and how to get in touch with them.
So again my name is Cesar Abeid and I have on the line Mark Johnson FAIA from MARKITECT. He’s very heavily involved with the social media. I follow his tweets a lot and he goes to conferences. He blogs and I will provide everybody with a short bio on everybody here. I also have Brian who’s the Social Media Manager for the Construction Marketing Association and also Neil Brown who is the Chairman of the Construction Marketing Association. I also have Duane Craig. He’s well-known in the blogosphere. He blogs about construction topics. So, hello everybody.
Duane: Hello, Cesar.
Mark: Hi, Cesar. Thanks for having us on.
Cesar: No problem. My pleasure and had a bit of a problem here getting started so we’re a little late and I’m a little flustered here with the internet. We’re used to North American standards for high speed internet and I’m here in the countryside of Brazil. I’m amazed that I could get everybody on the line at all. So I apologize in advance but anyway, so the questions that I would like to get started with is when I think of social medial and the construction industry, it’s construction industry is probably the oldest – one of the oldest, if not the oldest industry and I’ve been in it long enough to know that it’s very old school. People are usually reluctant or just resistant to change but we came to a point in the technology world that it’s inevitable and it’s interesting to see how this is affecting the industry.
So I would like to start with Neil and Brian and ask them how they got started blogging and engaging social media in the construction industry.
Neil: All right. Well Brian and I worked day to day at a marketing agency called Construction Marketing Advisors and so we run about a dozen blogs for different clients, mostly manufacturers but some construction firms as well; and so we’ve been big proponents of blogging from the beginning.
So, you know, the advantages of blogging are certainly thought leadership but the other advantages are – well, there are lots of advantages but it ends up helping SEO extraordinarily well and some of the freeware like WordPress had a lot of built-in SEOs. So [Indiscernible] blog when it’s linked properly to your primary website. Not linked but also the domain structure.
When it’s clear and simple to a search engine, then it ends up building search relevance for that website. So it accomplishes a lot of objectives and then the other aspect is that we’re very involved in these other types of social media, other social media profiles like Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn in particular, that the blog ends up automating posts in those different profiles through different tools like the tweet [Indiscernible] retweet counter tool and the Facebook Like counter tool; and then likewise if your Twitter is in your login profile then that retweet will populate your Twitter profile.
So the blogging ends up providing a foundation for all the other social profiles and it kind of automates some of those posts so you’re not doing it manually so we’re – Brian, do you want to add to that at all?
Brian: Yes. Another important thing with blogs too to play out the SEO point that Neil had already made is that each blog acts as an index page on your website so you’re constantly adding webpages to your website week after week; and overtime, the titles and the keywords you used within your blog post actually allow you to rank on the internet. So if you make a blog post on a specific topic, you can actually be number one or number two on Google if you get enough retweets and Facebook shares from that specific post.
Cesar: Yes. I totally agree. Ever since we started doing the podcast, we talk about these different topics and they become, as you said, webpages on our website and I’m just seeing visits to our website has skyrocketed since we started doing this. People are finding us through different keywords that they weren’t before.
So I see the value there and I agree. Neil and Brian, out of all of us here, you have a very specific focus which I think helps. You’re targeting the construction marketer but I have a question now for Duane. Duane, if you could just give us a brief introduction on how you got started; and you run the Construction Informer blog which is very broad in the content. I would like to see how do you become successful in blogging to such a broad audience as opposed to Neil and Brian from the Construction Marketing Association who have a very specific and focused niche.
Duane: Well, I think it’s just a matter of hanging in there and I – I mean again, I don’t know how successful I would term it. It just depends upon what your measurement of success is, I suppose but I – you know, I started the blog – mainly I had come out of the construction industry as a superintendent and was getting closer to retirement and wanted a little less stress. So this was kind of fulfilling a need for expression and I also had kind of a fascination and a desire to learn the technical nuances of building things on the web. You know, working with blogging platforms and widgets and plugins and those kinds of things and so the other thing I thought was well, because I’ve had some experience in construction at the time, this was back in 2007, I didn’t see a lot of efforts out there by people who had been in construction. I had seen quite a few things from people that either serve the construction industry or created products for the construction industry but there wasn’t that much from people who were actually in it.
So, you know, it seemed like it might be an opportunity to – well, to kind of fill a void for other kind of information source for people who are in construction.
Cesar: OK. Now, and Mark, just to wrap up this introductory portion here, Mark from our conversations and from the amount of information you put out there, it seems to me that you’re maybe – correct me if I’m wrong but you’re slowly becoming like a professional blogger. Is that right?
Mark: Yes. I will give you my background. It’s a little different take but I appreciate hearing what Neil and Duane are doing. I’m an architect by background but then moved to the building product side of the industry about 20 years ago. So it was about a little less than two years ago. I was tasked with helping the company ramp up on social media and in large part, it was to take advantage of social media at trade shows where we were seeing the press and designer bloggers very active on Twitter in particular and there was a need to engage with them.
Now, I got in guest blogging. Today I don’t have my own blog so what’s interesting is my Twitter emphasis has been really more as a curator of promoting and broadcasting other content which often is blogs or websites. So I’m probably one of the guys out there who’s promoting content that Neil and Duane are developing.
Cesar: I see. Yes, I think that’s a very valuable job that you’re doing there because I think – and maybe Neil or Brian could give their take here. But I think that there is a big disconnect from my own experience in the industry, right? That there’s a disconnect between all the awesome content that has been put out there and the guys actually at the construction site are getting their boots muddy, right? You know, a lot of our clients – actually all of our clients are construction companies or construction project owners and I talk to them a lot and I feel like they’re not really aware of any of this. You know, they go to work. They build and then they go home and they go fishing. They’re not really internet types.
So maybe Brian and Neil could give us their thoughts on how to reach out to the industry at large especially from a marketing point of view.
Brian: Yes, Brian here. You know, the big thing here is we may not be the big internet site. They may not be going out there searching for blogs but really what it’s for is to show up on the search engines because everybody – when you go out on the internet, where do you go? You usually go to Google. You type in whatever you’re trying to find and the goal here is to show up for whatever terms they may be searching for. You know, we really want to drive the results to be number one in the search engine results page.
Neil: Yes, and I would like to reinforce, you know, that’s the usual way that construction firms – and it may not be the owner that fishes and this and that. It may be – you know, even a mid-sized firm has a purchasing department so they may be sourcing building materials or equipment or subcontractors or whatever but – so that’s one thing and the other is that, you know, a blog has a built-in blogroll that allows you to build reciprocal links to your blog and bring credit to your main website again and Brian mentioned index pages. Every blog post builds – is an index page and then every reciprocal link from the blogroll and [Indiscernible] that searchability as well. So that’s a real broad purpose of this – you have no idea what keyword strings an end user is looking for 24/7, 365 and your blog – and we’ve proven this over and over again, you can have a blog about the most niche subject matter and someone will find it six months from now based on keyword search. So that’s the real power of it.
Cesar: Now Duane, maybe you could talk a little bit about this and I can vouch for this. There is a value therefore from a marketing point of view because as Brian mentioned, people are Googling. You know, nobody uses the Yellow Pages anymore, right? They just Google things and if you have your content there, people can find you but the other aspect of social media is community building to create your little tribes. I’m sure you all heard about that and I think the Construction Informer blog has that feel to it. Could you tell us a little bit about how do you interact with your readers when they comment or when they engage you? Like I did, I just emailed you out of the blue from your website. So how is your approach to creating your little community or your tribe around your blog?
Duane: Well, it hasn’t really been all that comprehensive. I mean sometimes when somebody will leave a comment that specifically asks a question then I respond but most of the time, I kind of stay out of the picture. What I think of myself doing is providing some food for thought and then people jump in and start running with it. Then that’s kind of how I would hope it would evolve. The social side of it is a little – you know, when you get into Twitter and Facebook, things like that, I think the social site is a little obscure still.
I mean – and probably, you know, there is a lot of hype about social these days but it really has a few things it has got to overcome before it becomes useful I think enough for the typical construction person. Like you said, who’s out there, you know, working on the job and so forth.
So I kind of look at it as an experimental thing that I do and so, my approach to it is to – because I just never thought I could follow a thousand people. It just doesn’t seem possible to keep up with all that. What I do with my Twitter account is I tend to look for people who post fairly regularly and that are talking about things that I think people who are following me would be interested in, in the broad, general framework of construction or even architecture and engineering because I stray into those areas as well. They’re really all kind of synergistic in a way and I think that the volume that we have happening in social media is going to need to get tuned down a little bit because it’s a little bit like listening to a radio station that has got all the stations tuned at one time.
There’s a lot of noise and if you put a post out there, its life span is maybe two or three seconds and it’s gone. So I think that for construction, the social area has got to overcome a few challenges yet. Like I think this is an early iteration we’re in before the rank and file people are beginning to find and be able to get some value from it.
Cesar: Mark, just from your people replying to your tweets, you seem to have a thriving, exciting community going around your posts. What’s your approach?
Mark: Yes. I would be glad to share that. I would agree that I think it is an experimental stage for all of this with regard to construction and building products and the design community; but a couple of success stories for me. I focus on the design community by and large. That’s my background and what I found is a terrific niche for me has actually been the interior designers and they often are specifying products for kitchen and bathroom models, certainly interior finishes, furniture, et cetera. So it’s not quite the robust construction market and some of them do commercial work as well. But what I found is that that group is incredibly chatty on Twitter and I’m a regular on two live Twitter chats that are weekly and I found that that’s a terrific venue.
So I think the Twitter chat where a group of people can come together for one hour a week and talk about a topic and I guest hosted three of them now and it’s an exciting way to build followers, talk about relevant content. As you all were talking about, how do you find people out there who are relevant when you’ve got a thousand followers? And I number a little over 5000 now?
Twitter chats are a nice way to do it. People kind of self-select and especially if you’re a live host. Then after that, a lot of those folks who tuned in are likely to follow you. Just one quick review. Last week, I hosted KBTribeChat. My second time doing that one, that’s specific to the kitchen and bath industry and I did a one-week Twitter campaign for them and we had some very successful results.
It’s a smaller chat because it’s not as established but we have record attendance of 50 people who were chatting more on the sidelines. A lot of building product companies [Indiscernible] chat and they use it as a focus group and then I did – because the topic was iPad and apps for the designer. It was a little more technical subject. So I experimented with doing a presentation that I put up on SlideShare as a reference tool and in the end, over the three-day campaign before and then the lead-up, we had about 1,165,000 impressions and those went out to – yes, 90,000 unique followers and we did incorporate Facebook in with that but Twitter was by and large the most of it; and one of the major [Indiscernible] goals was how many people could we drive to that presentation and the numbers right now over the last week are about 1500 to 1600 people who’ve clicked through to view that presentation on apps for the designer.
Cesar: That’s amazing. That’s really impressive. Yes, talk about creating community. That’s pretty impressive. Now I understand that Brian and Neil, they have to go but I just wanted to – before they go, if they could share with us – they provide services that speak to this very topic of marketing and new marketing. Maybe Brian, if you could share with the listeners. If they like to learn more about the services you provide and more about the Construction Marketing Association, where should they go?
Brian: Well the first place that I would suggest going is to our website. We have a really robust website with a lot of resources that they can go check out and of course the topic we’re talking about if they want to see our capabilities and such. We have an awesome blog that has a lot of great content on it, that they can search and find what they’re looking for as well as our social profiles are laid out to see kind of the offering that we can give them and how we could set up profiles for them as well.
Brian: And also the website is www.ConstructionMarketingAssociation.org so you can find everything there that links out to all our social profiles and LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter and YouTube.
Brian: And we’re going on Google+ so hopefully we can have a conversation about that [Inaudible] too.
Cesar: Great. Yes, and I definitely recommend you check their website. I’m a subscriber to your blog there, Brian. You have excellent content and you recently posted – you had a webinar on using YouTube for marketing in the construction industry which you guys were kind enough to share the audio portion of it with me so I can syndicate it on our podcast and I will be doing that in the next few days. Excellent, excellent content and I will have the link to your website on the show notes as well. Thank you for participating.
Brian: All right. Thanks, guys. All right. Have a great day.
Cesar: OK. Bye-bye.
Neil: Thank you.
Cesar: Thank you. OK. Now, Mark, could you tell us a little bit more about SlideShare? I’ve seen a lot of SlideShares. In fact, the first ever guest I had on the show, I found him through one of his SlideShares that were posted. In fact, if you Google “social media for construction industry,” the very first hit is going to be the SlideShare. Since then, I’ve seen a number of them. Tell us a little bit more about your experience with that because I think a lot of us have a lot of PowerPoint already made up for presentations that we’ve done in the past and this seems like a good way to syndicate and post that and turn your slides into keyword-rich content for your site and draw more people to your brand.
Mark: Yes. You bet, Cesar. I would be glad to talk about that. I’m actually new to SlideShare so I’m still ramping up but I spoke at the Ignite Social Media Conference in Midland, Michigan just about a month ago and one of the presenters – in fact she was the keynote and it was really nice because within 24 hours, she had her presentation up on SlideShare and was tweeting about it and it was very nice to throw some retweets her way and get her message out. So I thought, again, just like you said, I’ve done a lot of presentations because I do a lot of presenting at trade shows and events and continuing education. So I had put my first one up there. It was the presentation from Ignite. It’s called Social and Virtual Media Marketing for Small Business and it surprised me but I’m looking at the stats right now and in the last month, that has been viewed 495 times and it has gotten a few comments as well and that was really without any promotion.
Now the example from last week, the iPad and apps for designers, that was interesting. That was my second one and it’s a full 50 slides and I thought, “Was that going to be too much?” But what I did with that was post it there first and then we embedded that in the KBTribeChat blog site and it’s so well integrated that you can view it right from their site. The presentation looks beautiful and further, I embedded the same presentation on my Facebook pro page and you can – take you right through it there as about a wallet-sized image or you can click and view it full screen and would come through in high definition and it looks great.
So that was a big part of the campaign last week and I knew because I had taught this subject several times live. The biggest question I was going to get was, “Where can I get a list of the apps that you just talked about?” So this was a wonderful way to pass along that documentation to everybody who is interested and then what was even more interesting or exciting about it was at 6 o’clock last Friday, I got an email from SlideShare and they had seen the activity going on in their email and then they tweeted as well; but it said, “You’ve been selected to have your presentation featured on our home page over the weekend.” So over the next 48 hours on average, that presentation was being downloaded once every three minutes.
Cesar: That’s crazy.
Mark: Well, it was exciting. It was very nice of them to do that and I know a lot of that traction was because it made their home page but they saw this relevant content.
Mark: And I was glad to get the message out there. So I would recommend SlideShare as yet another way to enhance your social media presence with rich content and in my case, a 50-page presentation was an interesting challenge to get out there.
Cesar: OK. I will have a link to SlideShare on the show notes. I’m sure it’s SlideShare.com but just in case, I will have the link there and I think – and this will turn it back to Duane because I think it’s a nice segue here but I think when I’m looking for things online, I don’t know, maybe because I’m in social media and I do the marketing for my own company, I’m kind of averse to people pitching to me things; and I think a SlideShare presentation, when I find it, it comes across as OK, this was probably presented at some conference and people just posted this online now.
So it doesn’t look like a pitch which to me it’s a powerful way for you to actually pitch, right? Because you can have a SlideShare about a topic that you want promoted and people would be more open to it because it’s a PowerPoint presentation that was probably presented at a conference and not just a bunch of marketing guys trying to get your business which I think speaks to authenticity and that’s why I think it segues back to Duane because that’s what I get, Duane, from when I read your blog.
You just come across as an authentic guy who is just there to share good information with the community and if you could talk to me a little bit about authenticity and how – I don’t know – and if you do any tracking of site visits and where people are coming from when they come to your blog.
Duane: Yes. I use Google Analytics and they’re kind of worldwide really. It’s interesting the numbers that come from other countries because I haven’t really made a strong effort to have news or perspectives on construction news from other countries although I do include it when I find something that’s interesting. I think for me, that has been the key in blogging is writing about things that happen to spark my interest because oftentimes, I find myself interested in some of the things around the edges of the envelope and they’re the kinds of things that many people probably haven’t even thought of or looked at before.
I think some of the things we’ve talked about about social – when you look at construction, I think you have to kind of keep the concept of social for construction on kind of a [0:30:43] [Indiscernible] because in a way, much of the conversation about social is about marketing to those people in construction but then there’s a whole other aspect of social and internet that had to do with the people who are in construction. So the construction companies, the architects, the engineers and their goals are quite a bit different from the people who are marketing to them.
If you take like a large construction firm like Turner that is going to build a huge project somewhere in the world, the idea that social is going to bring them the contacts and actually the jobs is probably not there because there’s already these other networks that construction has been working in in using in order to get work and to move jobs forward; and I think that the number of people who are embracing social for those purposes in construction is probably pretty small. But there are some things that even a small construction company or a large construction company can do with social that can help them out and one of the biggest things is just finding qualified employees. It’s a real challenge in construction these days and it’s going to get worse for companies to find employees that match the skill sets they’re looking for and social is one of those ways that – one of the things you can use to help bring those people to you and there are a number of other things.
As a matter of fact, because I did some researches, I was getting ready for this, I ended up actually kind of creating a blog post. So I’m going to have about four or five things, four or five other things that I’m going to have in a blog post here, probably this week. So people can look at other ways they can use social if they are that construction company and not the company for example that wants to sell to construction.
Cesar: Right. OK. Yes, you brought up a point that I hadn’t considered before that there is already a number of networks that are being used and have been used for a while now for companies to find work such as MERX and [0:33:19] [Indiscernible] which are basically a subset of the internet but for jobs, for construction projects and …
Duane: Well, and I was thinking too of about the golf courses. I mean there is a lot of construction business that gets done on golf courses. There is a lot of these what we would term old world networks that are still in place and those are the places where construction companies are actually finding their work.
Cesar: Now this is maybe bringing back to Mark here because Mark is very personable and very – your tweets are personal and I like them and I think that’s one of the secrets is that – correct me if I’m wrong, Mark, but I think that what social media brought to the picture is a face and a voice to businesses that static websites didn’t have before. If you go to a web 1.0 site like let’s say IBM.com back in 1998, it was basically an ad for IBM and contact information and now if you have – if IBM has a Twitter feed, you immediately associate that with a person behind a keyboard. What are your thoughts on that and how does that relate to an industry that’s so much geared towards simply the lowest bidder and getting jobs that way?
Mark: Yes, great question, Cesar and I would agree with you that Twitter is so immediate and you can develop a style. A few folks have said that. You know, I like your Twitter style and that surprised me at first because I typically am just putting content out there and not as chatty but I would agree. Absolutely. It puts a person with a face and I don’t think there will ever be a replacement for relationship marketing, if you will. You know, person to person.
So as much as I love internet and social media and so on, one of the great things about it for me has been – since I’ve had the opportunity to travel to so many trade shows, is meeting up with all these people that either I follow or they follow me live at a trade show. So it might be the press room. It might be [0:35:50] [Indiscernible] that you meet them and your old friends because you’ve been communicating with each other and then suddenly, you get to create a friendship. So that’s one aspect of it and then another thing – and this was great. This was at the Greenbuild Show again just last month where I went in to the construction data booth and there were two young gals who do all the tweets; and when I introduced myself, they said, “Oh yes. We know you. We follow you,” and then they were suddenly throwing a lot of tweets my way and retweeting a lot of my content and that really came because we had made that introduction.
Then likewise, a great company was Kohler and I spent quite a bit of time in their booth because sustainability is just such an interesting topic and they really did a phenomenal job with their booth design. So I made a few remarks about that on Twitter and then the next thing you know, I was contacted by their social media folks who invited me to do a guest blog on Kohler Talk about their business and I take a lot of pictures when I’m out there. So that went up last week and they were delighted to have somebody who was outside the company and an architect who was writing from that sustainability standpoint about all of the things that they considered not just in their products but in their booth design; and of course it was some very nice PR for me.
So those would be a couple of examples of that personal connection and style that you just mentioned.
Cesar: OK. Now to wrap up, I think it has been already over 35 – almost 40 minutes. So this is great and I could talk to you guys for the whole day but I am positive that people are going to find this interview and this roundtable discussion when searching for construction and social media and they will probably be looking at where to start and we talked about blogging and Facebook and Twitter.
Now I would like to ask each one of you, maybe starting with Duane. If you could share with the listener something that you’ve found recently or something that might not be such mainstream but that it’s working well for you. It could be a plugin for your website or any technique, anything that’s working for you right now that you would be willing to share.
Duane: Well, one of the things that I’m finding people are leaning more and more – or being more attracted to it seems is – and I think we’ve known this for a while but I don’t know how much we’ve actually pushed it out into the blogosphere and that is things like slideshows; and of course embedding video has been there for a while too but it seems like as people are tending to want to not read as much and get more of the story visually and pictures of some kind.
So I’ve been experimenting more with that and I’ve seen probably a 25 percent increase in traffic since I’ve begun to focus on it more. So I think that for anybody that is looking to get a message out, the more you can make it graphical – and you got to be careful. You got to keep that bandwidth down while you’re doing it.
So the more you can make it graphical, I think the more people you’re going to attract these days and of course the information has got to somehow be valuable. I think that that’s – oftentimes, in the blog world – and I’ve been guilty of this too. I put something up that at hindsight I look at it and say, “Well, I don’t know how valuable that is to the people who I imagine come to my blog.” So it’s always important, I think, to really keep that at the top of your list is make whatever it is you put out there something that people can take something away from.
Cesar: Right. And about making videos and then in graphical things, we all know that Google is the number one search engine in the world but what I didn’t know up until recently is that the number two is not Yahoo! or any of the other ones. It’s YouTube. So people do more searches on YouTube than they do on Yahoo! and people are also looking for this content and it might not be your cup of tea but I think it might be worth it to be there somehow.
What about you, Mark? What has been working for you right now?
Mark: Well, Cesar, I would recommend if your listeners are not in on a Twitter chat group on a weekly basis, then it’s a great thing to join, a great way to connect and learn from others. The two that I do, KBTribeChat is one and then another one is Interior Designer Chat. The hashtag for that is IntDesignerChat but you just learn a lot and there are a lot of industry leaders who are regulars on those; and if you want to find the list that’s out there, the easiest way to do that is just like you were talking about. You Google Twitter chat groups.
Mark: And this is very nice. There’s a Google document out there, a Google doc that you will find when you do that search and people are able to add their Twitter chats and the time and the description of the chat to that. So it’s an ongoing document and as far as I know, that’s about the best way currently to find out what might be a relevant topic. Because culinary is an interest, I sat in on the Food Network a couple of weeks ago and that was fascinating. So a whole variety of topics but trying a Twitter chat to see if you enjoy that. Pick up new followers and find a group that shares common interest is what I would recommend.
Cesar: OK, great. And just if the listeners are not familiar with the concept, I think it talks to what Duane mentioned earlier about. You know, social media being like a radio that’s tuned 12 stations, right? The Twitter chat would be – just correct me there if I’m wrong, Mark, but it would be a filter for Twitter in general. So you can chat with people who are talking about the same topic and that only. Correct?
Mark: Yes, yes. That’s a good point. If somebody has not done one, then I will explain very simply the way they do it. If you use HootSuite, you can set up streams. You just set up a stream that uses the hashtag during that hour and you’re going to see every comment and that allows you to retweet, comment yourself, come up with original tweets; and because there’s generally a list of questions from the moderator or guest host, it’s very responsive and educational. Then two other easy-to-use apps, one is called Twitterfall. I like that one and then another is TweetChat.
So if you download either of those apps and again enter the hashtag which is just the number symbol before whatever word they’ve chosen as the hashtag for that chat. You just follow that stream and you can listen in or you can jump in.
Cesar: Very good. Very good. OK. Well, I like to wrap this up and I would like to thank both of you and also Neil and Brian who left earlier but this was fantastic, a good way to get to know each other better and share our experiences there in this brave, new world of social media and how it relates to the construction industry that’s really old. I think to me it’s fascinating to see these two worlds mix and match and I think you guys are in the forefront of this and it’s an honor to talk to you and thanks for your time.
Duane: Thank you, Cesar.
Mark: Yes. Thanks, Cesar. If anybody does want to see some of the things I’ve been sharing, my Twitter handle and same on the LinkedIn, Google+, even SlideShare is MarkJohnsonFAIA.
Cesar: OK. And Duane, your website is?
Cesar: Very good. Thank you very much. [/spoiler]